Jigsaw.au (Lily CTF) possible wallhack

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Geordie
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Jigsaw.au (Lily CTF) possible wallhack

Post by Geordie » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:09 am

So apparently I don't know "who this is", some comp legend apparently. I would put it at about 90% chance its a wallhack.

This player obviously knows how to play, so the tells are a little more subtle. The thing to watch for here is zooming at hidden targets. There are several examples, but my favorite is at 26s where the pre zoom lands perfectly on the hidden target:
Jigsaw.au-1s.png
Jigsaw.au-1s.png (368.01 KiB) Viewed 599 times
Then again three seconds later at 29s:
Jigsaw.au-1-29s.png
Jigsaw.au-1-29s.png (390.99 KiB) Viewed 599 times
Here is the video on Youtube with normals, demo is attached. I have two other demos,this was the first, but I just can't be arsed processing them. If anyone wants more, let me know.



So legend, seems your rep is under a very large rain cloud . . .
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20181028_173759_HagraBiscuit_ut4_orbital_sl_lilymod1_CTF.zip
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Jigsaw
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Re: Jigsaw.au (Lily CTF) wallhack

Post by Jigsaw » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:32 am

Howdy,

This is the legend mentioned. I could give you some history about how long I've played, and in fact I will, I'd say total time except for the 8 year break is pretty close to 9 years, and of those 9 about 4 are at the competitive pro level. Here's the link to the NationsCup team http://urban-zone.org/index.php?name=Co ... &cid=58989. I could also talk about the hundreds of tournaments I've played at that level with anti-cheat/VACC software running since that used to be required for the scene. I could also link you a bunch of recordings of myself playing competitive way better than the clip you've linked which are actually me streaming the game. Or I could give you all the screenshots and demos that are taken as part of that process where you can see miraculously, I don't have a wallhack. You can request any of those and I'll gladly zip them up and send them over to you.

To talk about the clip below, I actually remember this one fondly. I remember landing those shots and thinking, damn that was a nice one. So how about I actually go through the clip and tell you what was happening in that game, since from admin experience I can tell you is incredibly important.

So your first screenshot where my crosshair is one someone, if you watch the clip I'm actually sliding down some stairs and I'm prescoping the (I call the area "Spaceman") right-side, where typically snipers sit. To explain the importance of pre-scoping I'd have to give an entire lesson on comeptitive FPS and different aiming styles, but the general idea is that if you line your crosshair on areas with high probability of players, the majority of the time someone will be there, if you don't prescope (especially in high-level competitive scenes where sniper battles are incredibly important to the mode) you'll lose the majority of battles, because speed of kill is vastly more important than accuracy of kill, by prescoping you reduce the amount of adjustment needed when aiming meaning a faster speed of kill. Speaking to the demo specifically, I was playing orb mainly (I'm not entirely sure what the map location is called, I always call it orb) but we were getting smashed on defence from spaceman so I decided to play back and help out (mainly because we had bots on defence which as you can imagine doesn't work out that well). So what areas do people sit in that entire area, majority of time they're at left or right-side spaceman, which you can see at the start I'm actually scoping, since there was none, I move to the right side where someone shows up, I was actually already mid adjusting my scope to point at the red-room doors since that was the most likely area, next section as I'm reloading I can hear one of the doors open up, I wasn't sure which so I lined my crosshair in the middle of both doors so I could flick to either, however I'm bad and miss my shot (also downward flicking is an incredibly hard thing to do, most high-level FPS players will atest to this), you can also see someone at spaceman clearly as I miss so I knew I was likely going to get rushed, my immediate concern was the player I just missed who was quite oviously close on that side because you should close the gap with snipers, hit the shot, and I start to suss out where the player at spaceman would be, most likely they're rushing as I was the only one on defence, so I didn't need to pre-scope left side they're more than likely going to be jumping around mid, which I miss because I'm human. I die, forgot what way I was going for a second and re-adjust. Now I know the person that killed me was already dead, because they died to a grenade, so most likely the immediate rush is over since I didn't see anyone else rushing with them, I also know the people defending on my team died so they're more than likely partial-rushing (immediate means I should sit back in garden and scope flag, partial means they're currently moving from spaceman in that area), noone rushes from left side because it's too open so I prescope towards spaceman as I'm sliding down the stairs (which apparently to you I was watching someone through a wall). Noone was at spaceman but there was shit tonnes are red room doors, I hit the shot because bots are predictable and as I'm moving back to reload someone was rushing me (and even shot me) from left side. I had full visibility on left side already, so I pre-scope so that when I walk and duck I don't have to readjust my crosshair (it's a very handy trick to make shots faster), I actually thought this guy was much closer which is why I was lined up slightly to the left before getting hit again (beautiful 200 ping) and I whiff the shot, they're quite obviously pushing in harder since the person next to me died so I try a quick-scope and hit limbs sadly. So I respawn, we didn't kill many so I walk up with a ump on mop-up duty, again you can see I do the exact same aiming trick I always do, pre-scope wall to left side, noone there so i flick to right, I see someone at spaceman but I was closer to red room so I go for that, he dies anyway so I setup to scope down right side of spaceman where that other one was, he was actually closer to mid so I had to flick left to hit the shot (another thing I'm actually awful at so I was happy to hit that one), I turn to see if flag carrier needs help which they don't, so I turn again and see my bots shooting at something, miss the shot luckily bots are god tier, I want to get agressive at spaceman since we had heaps moving there but I needed to reload the sr8 first so I move to left room for cover, check ump and think about reloading but see my team mate needs heals first so I try to heal them, they start shooting at someonething (so of course the med disconnects, you should seriously try medding at 200+ ping it's a nightmare), he was looking at red room doors so that's where I pre-scope, I actually mess up on my pre-scope and lined up too far on the right but I got lucky and hit the shot, I push carefully into spaceman since respawns were up, hence why I prescope for anyone pushing in, I see noone but hear red doors, I flick around but it's my teammate so I go back to what I was doing, I start to pre-scope boxes since people love sitting there, see a nade and pray to jesus as I jump like a maniac to avoid dying, since it's being naded I assume people were pushing in so I move further back to setup for a shot, guy slides in, I hit the shot, I hear red room doors open again so I make sure I check it (I'm not a minimap player, I do this way too often), hear bullets there so i scope at the door, someone walks out I miss them, I check again to see if they were still there, they weren't so I go back to my job of controlling the left area, I again pre-scope left side, nothing there so I move to right (can tell noone is at boxes because you can see head/helmet clips at the top), see someone there, attempt shot, whiff, pre-scope left again, move right, see helmet at box, hit that guy, I'm not actually sure how I missed the guy moving left, maybe he ping warped or something, but I move back to reload and die.

There's the entire breakdown of the clip, you got some "legend" worthy feedback to help with your gameplay, I'm happy to help you out with pre-aiming if you want since it's pretty vital to high level gameplay, especially sniper, here's a link to my youtube if you feel like checking out some high level gameplay https://www.youtube.com/user/J1g5aw123/ ... subscriber, my personal favourite is this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3TzkQjvYog, or even better here's a link to the latest clanbase nationscup shoutcast of team australia https://www.twitch.tv/videos/333765935

Another tib-bit of info which is pretty interesting to know, I can't disclose the company I work for (and any team aus players laughing right now, don't disclose either please :) ) - but I work for a pretty well known gaming org and cheating in games is actually subject to disciplinary actions according to our code of conduct, just a fun piece of info.

Legend out -
Jigsaw

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Geordie
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Re: Jigsaw.au (Lily CTF) wallhack

Post by Geordie » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:59 pm

Well howdy yourself legend, welcome to our little corner of the gaming world.

Quite an essay there ;-)

Before I continue, I will first tell you a little story that may help explain a few things.

It is about a man you have very likely heard of, named Lance Armstrong.
He won 7 Tour De France races and many, many others and made hundreds of millions of dollars, all under the most extensive anti doping regime in the world.
Now I could give you a link to his profile and to many articles about his team and wins etc, but I guess you can see where this is going.
Anyhow, turns out he was cheating all along and his entire team and management were complicit.
If I remember correctly he called the day he finally admitted it "a $75million day" due to the amount it cost him on that day alone.

My point is that if Lance Armstrong can be a cheat, so can anyone, including Jigsaw of "Team Australia".

So you have been reported as suspicious, you have come here and big noted yourself while repeatedly sledging the accuser, while failing to do the one thing I would have expected. Objectively discuss the demo, in fact in your overly verbose description, you have contradicted yourself somewhat.

For someone who calls them self a pro, you sure come across more as a condescending adolescent on an ego trip. I hope your "gaming org" doesn't have rules about behavior in online forums, my company sure does.

So anyway, as for the demo, it essentially all comes down to the one shot, second shot after your death, the one you miss (second screenshot).

I read your account, and the interesting bit is that when describing an earlier shot you said "I do the exact same aiming trick I always do, pre-scope wall to left side".

Now, during the shot in question, you do in fact pre-scope the left wall with your cross hairs falling directly on the hidden target (second screenshot). The problem is, that on the previous shot you did NOT, you pre-scoped "space man" with cross hairs falling directly on a hidden target (first screenshot). Now for this shot you were coming from spawn after dying, so you would have lost your picture of who was where, yet instead of pre-scoping the left wall "as you always do", you went strait for space man where the hidden players were.

Interesting huh?

Now I realise this is just a technical issue and based on current info chances are good that you are NOT a wall hack. But as the title of this section says "Report Suspicious Behavior", it is not a request for a ban, or even at this point a judgement of guilt, it is simply a request for peer review. You have not been banned here or anywhere else I am aware of. I myself would not ban you based on this alone either unless there was majority agreement on it. But I will certainly leave this thread up as a poster child of how NOT to respond to an suspicion of hacking. But because I am nice, I will change the title for you.

Oh an interesting fact, it would seem I have been playing significantly longer than you have. I am quite well versed in all the techniques you have mentioned, so no lessons will be necessary. I am just a humble casual player who plays for the fun of it, no ambitions of being the best of the best :-)

So are you still playing pro ? I would have thought that would be hopeless from AU assuming it is hosted on US or EU based servers.

Bye for now
--G

Jigsaw
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Re: Jigsaw.au (Lily CTF) possible wallhack

Post by Jigsaw » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:45 am

Howdy Geordie,

Admittedly I can say I wrote that with slight frustration, there's not many servers in the game anymore and I don't get much time to play games anymore, it's ironic - you move into games development and stop gaming mostly, so as you can imagine having to deal with stuff like this is not something I want to do and would rather just enjoy the few gaming sessions I do have. I definitely should have definitely split up my explanation into separate time points to make it more consumable, and apologies for that.

I appreciate the story of Lance, however your first statement stated you weren't aware of who I was, so I gave you background, which I deem important to the report as whilst Lance did cheat, you could agree that it's much less likely for him to do so based on his level of experience which is why there was such a shock, making the background important to the case.

My apologies if I came off condescending, I must admit I was having a slight giggle at the "legend" component, however you were also throwing shade at me with things such as "apparently I don't know who this is", "90% chance it's a wallhack" and my personal favorite "So legend, seems your rep is under a very large rain cloud", so I think it seems like not only I, but you as well should take your advice at acting professional about this. Regardless of my frustration like I mentioned before, I shouldn't have responded with any comments that could be taken as derogatory.

To comment on your question regarding your demo, you'll notice during my kill-cam I had full visibility of the left-hand side of that area, so when I respawned and reapproached I had no reason to consider someone was there. Interestingly enough, there was actually someone there, I noticed this on my second viewing of the YouTube clip, which subjectively speaking would've been more of a threat if I was aware of their presence, so I think sliding in like I did would have been a foolish move to expose myself to that player, however I wasn't aware of their presence. To speak to the screenshots in terms of the timeline, my pre-scope which lands on the person (screenshot one) was part of the sliding movement which is focused on the right side of spaceman. The second screenshot is almost immediately after the first, and you'll notice I can see the player approaching me and I even get tagged by them ("Jigsaw.au was hit in the Right Lower Leg by Avatar(SysRex)"), hence why I lined up for that shot.

I agree, the forum section definitely has that in the title, but you clearly opened with the original title of "Jigsaw.au wallhack" and the opening line of "90% chance" which is less of a "request for review" and more targeted as an allegation.

True, I think my total experience is botched due to my frequent breaks from the game, I can barely remember when I started playing it was that long ago. I'm looking forward to resurgence in hopes of a revived community, even after all these years this game is still one of the most engaging gaming experiences I've had.

Team Australia did compete in this years Nations Cup, however we were under prepared and outmatched by the teams this year - mainly due to most of our players coming back for "one more romp" rather than practicing properly. Ping scales quite decent in Urban Terror surprisingly, anything above 300 is chaos with warping etc, but sub-300 is pretty competitive and the pugs that are done through discord are still quite enjoyable.

Cheers,
Jigsaw

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Geordie
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Re: Jigsaw.au (Lily CTF) possible wallhack

Post by Geordie » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:10 am

Howdy Jigsaw,

Excellent response !

Yes I must confess that I am not blameless, when someone pisses me off, I do tend to bait the crap out of them in any way possible which is a bit unfair I suppose ;-)

Being a sniper didn't help. In my opinion is that the SR8 has way too big an advantage, and the accuracy should really be reduced in relation to stamina. I believe this was going to happen in the 4.2 release, but so many people moaned and bitched about it, I guess they didn't.

So as near as I can guess, I started playing around maybe 14 years ago? like you it is so long ago I really can't remember. I started playing UrT because it supported Linux and I was a bit disappointed at the commercial games that were available at the time. A lot were moving towards the "earn points to unlock shit" type of experience. I prefer games that you can just pick your load out and play for 10 minutes or 10 hours without being disadvantaged. Been playing ever since.

As for the demo, as I mentioned, at this point I am happy you were not walling. On the night in question, I had not heard of you, and the demo I posted was literally the first 40 second I was watching you. Then I saw your message in the Lily website shoutbox, so by the time I posted the demo I was already in full shitstiring mode :-)

On the subject of Resurgence, I am actually quite worried it might fragment the community even further. It may be an advantage to have a slightly cartoonish appearance to a game, more detailed textures can make it harder to pick out targets. Or maybe I am getting too old and don't like change.

So anyway, next move is up to you. I said I would leave this post up, but I feel that I have made my point, so say the word and it is gone. (just PM me here)

Look forward to shooting you sometime soon (preferably from behind)

--G

Oh, on the subject of advice, if you know a way to bind a key to HE only I am all ears. Seems if you pick up someones else's smoke then select grenade, smoke always comes up first, would prefer if nothing happened. Gives me the full on shits!

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